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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#16
Victor Tombs wrote:
ThymineC wrote:Identifiable characters should definitely be a thing. I would like to be able to become emotionally attached to some of the NPCs if possible.
For someone with your philosophy Thymine you amaze me with how insightful you are at times. I couldn't agree more with what you say here. :clap: :D
A hearty +1 from me.

Hyperion, I think it's brilliant. Josh loves his procedurals (as do we all, I think), and this seems very much like something that could be procedurally generated.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#17
Love the idea! I hope Josh (praised be he’s name) hears your prayers and incorporates this into the game.
Question: Is it possible for the avatar to give out some information regarding the one that possess it? I mean if by the avatar of an NPC you could tell if he is of the aggressive nature or if he is of choleric nature.

Again I love the idea!
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#18
Question: Is it possible for the avatar to give out some information regarding the one that possess it?
With procedurally-generated avatars, anything is possible. I think that this could be done simply by the harshness of the lines, and the coloration - harsh red might mean aggressive, while wispy blue might mean peaceful. You could mix and match, too, assigning various properties to different things - with wispy red and harsh blue. You could even take the length of the lines into account - there's a treasure trove of possibilities here.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#19
Talvieno wrote:
Question: Is it possible for the avatar to give out some information regarding the one that possess it?
With procedurally-generated avatars, anything is possible. I think that this could be done simply by the harshness of the lines, and the coloration - harsh red might mean aggressive, while wispy blue might mean peaceful. You could mix and match, too, assigning various properties to different things - with wispy red and harsh blue. You could even take the length of the lines into account - there's a treasure trove of possibilities here.
Josh (praised be your name)

Thy will be done
Thy kingdom come
But in the meantime could you please incorporate this idea into the game?
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#20
Talvieno wrote:
Question: Is it possible for the avatar to give out some information regarding the one that possess it?
With procedurally-generated avatars, anything is possible. I think that this could be done simply by the harshness of the lines, and the coloration - harsh red might mean aggressive, while wispy blue might mean peaceful. You could mix and match, too, assigning various properties to different things - with wispy red and harsh blue. You could even take the length of the lines into account - there's a treasure trove of possibilities here.
Or just make it all in nodes and you can dynamically express information through, say, the patterns in which the nodes change shape or size or colour. That way you can always make the avatar you see reflect the state of the NPC, whether we're dealing with slowly-varying characteristics such as personality or quickly-varying characteristics such as mood.
Hadrianus wrote:Josh (praised be your name)

Thy will be done
Thy kingdom come
Josh isn't a god mate.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#22
ThymineC wrote: Or just make it all in nodes and you can dynamically express information through, say, the patterns in which the nodes change shape or size or colour. That way you can always make the avatar you see reflect the state of the NPC, whether we're dealing with slowly-varying characteristics such as personality or quickly-varying characteristics such as mood.
maybe make the nodes themself invisible and the lines drawing the "faces" get generated between the nodes with something like those dynamic flowchart tool connection lines.

The quality of the faces combined with the dynamisn of the nodes

Edit: maybe some spline based approach would be better, but you get the idea
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#23
ThymineC wrote:
Talvieno wrote:
Question: Is it possible for the avatar to give out some information regarding the one that possess it?
With procedurally-generated avatars, anything is possible. I think that this could be done simply by the harshness of the lines, and the coloration - harsh red might mean aggressive, while wispy blue might mean peaceful. You could mix and match, too, assigning various properties to different things - with wispy red and harsh blue. You could even take the length of the lines into account - there's a treasure trove of possibilities here.
Or just make it all in nodes and you can dynamically express information through, say, the patterns in which the nodes change shape or size or colour. That way you can always make the avatar you see reflect the state of the NPC, whether we're dealing with slowly-varying characteristics such as personality or quickly-varying characteristics such as mood.
Excellent additions, and I'd like to suggest that the avatar's image doesn't alter too much overall during gameplay, so you can still recognize specific NPCs.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#24
Talvieno wrote:Excellent additions, and I'd like to suggest that the avatar's image doesn't alter too much overall during gameplay, so you can still recognize specific NPCs.
It's not really additions, I'm just repeating what I said a few months back. But I agree that most of the nodes should be more or less static.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#26
ThymineC wrote:
Talvieno wrote:Excellent additions, and I'd like to suggest that the avatar's image doesn't alter too much overall during gameplay, so you can still recognize specific NPCs.
It's not really additions, I'm just repeating what I said a few months back. But I agree that most of the nodes should be more or less static.
Can’t say I agree. People change over time. Wouldn’t it be more realistic to have some difficulties in recognizing an NPC you haven’t seen in a while? For that reason I think most nods should not be static but the changes that do occur should do so at a very slow pace. So that the difficulty in recognizing an NPC comes only when you stay away from that NPC for a long period of time, in the range of 10s of in game years.

This being valid in the cases where the avatar shows the NPCs disposition as well, again people change, to be honest if you were to record a conversation I had 15 years ago on a certain point and compare it with a conversation I have these days on the exact same point it might as well be two different persons.

People change, and they change a lot, speaking in regards to their appearance and personality!
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#27
Hadrianus wrote:
ThymineC wrote:
Talvieno wrote:Excellent additions, and I'd like to suggest that the avatar's image doesn't alter too much overall during gameplay, so you can still recognize specific NPCs.
It's not really additions, I'm just repeating what I said a few months back. But I agree that most of the nodes should be more or less static.
Can’t say I agree. People change over time. Wouldn’t it be more realistic to have some difficulties in recognizing an NPC you haven’t seen in a while? For that reason I think most nods should not be static but the changes that do occur should do so at a very slow pace. So that the difficulty in recognizing an NPC comes only when you stay away from that NPC for a long period of time, in the range of 10s of in game years.

This being valid in the cases where the avatar shows the NPCs disposition as well, again people change, to be honest if you were to record a conversation I had 15 years ago on a certain point and compare it with a conversation I have these days on the exact same point it might as well be two different persons.

People change, and they change a lot, speaking in regards to their appearance and personality!
Sure. Static or very slowly changing - whatever works I guess.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#28
Hadrianus wrote:Can’t say I agree. People change over time. Wouldn’t it be more realistic to have some difficulties in recognizing an NPC you haven’t seen in a while? For that reason I think most nods should not be static but the changes that do occur should do so at a very slow pace. So that the difficulty in recognizing an NPC comes only when you stay away from that NPC for a long period of time, in the range of 10s of in game years.

This being valid in the cases where the avatar shows the NPCs disposition as well, again people change, to be honest if you were to record a conversation I had 15 years ago on a certain point and compare it with a conversation I have these days on the exact same point it might as well be two different persons.

People change, and they change a lot, speaking in regards to their appearance and personality!
People change, but they don't change overmuch, honestly. Sometimes a major life event can change someone's personality in a fundamental way, but things like this are rare. A person's personality is actually mostly set by the time they're five years old. From that point onwards, it rarely deviates unless they go through some life-changing event. As a rule, though, if you recognize someone when they're 20, you'll always be able to recognize them. Remember that this won't be just a personality graph - it'll be their physical appearance as well... so I'd want to be able to recognize an NPC if I'd grown fond of them.

Edit: The exception to this is if we're getting NPCs who are five to fifteen years old. Physical appearance, and sometimes personality, changes greatly during those years. However, I wouldn't want anyone in my fleet to be five to fifteen years of age... I think they should be already mature by the time they're sitting in the cockpit. At that point, physical appearance and personality should pretty much be firmly set.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#29
Talvieno wrote:
Hadrianus wrote:Can’t say I agree. People change over time. Wouldn’t it be more realistic to have some difficulties in recognizing an NPC you haven’t seen in a while? For that reason I think most nods should not be static but the changes that do occur should do so at a very slow pace. So that the difficulty in recognizing an NPC comes only when you stay away from that NPC for a long period of time, in the range of 10s of in game years.

This being valid in the cases where the avatar shows the NPCs disposition as well, again people change, to be honest if you were to record a conversation I had 15 years ago on a certain point and compare it with a conversation I have these days on the exact same point it might as well be two different persons.

People change, and they change a lot, speaking in regards to their appearance and personality!
People change, but they don't change overmuch, honestly. Sometimes a major life event can change someone's personality in a fundamental way, but things like this are rare. A person's personality is actually mostly set by the time they're five years old. From that point onwards, it rarely deviates unless they go through some life-changing event. As a rule, though, if you recognize someone when they're 20, you'll always be able to recognize them. Remember that this won't be just a personality graph - it'll be their physical appearance as well... so I'd want to be able to recognize an NPC if I'd grown fond of them.

Edit: The exception to this is if we're getting NPCs who are five to fifteen years old. Physical appearance, and sometimes personality, changes greatly during those years. However, I wouldn't want anyone in my fleet to be five to fifteen years of age... I think they should be already mature by the time they're sitting in the cockpit. At that point, physical appearance and personality should pretty much be firmly set.
Not really! Just a week ago I was out for a beer and I had the chance to run into a friend of mine from collage. I almost did not recognize him. (I did but with difficulty, as I said it should be hard no impossible). Also as another example I happened upon a photograph of my father since he was 20, sorry but placing it side by side to a recent photograph of him can’t say they look the same, they look similar but not so much that I would intuitively recognize them as being the one and the same person.

As for personality, one of my best friends from collage was the timid nerd type, all the way through college, just a year ago he opened a sex shop. People change!

I know these are examples from my personal life, and I have no idea how representative they are. But since just off the top of my head I can come up with 3 examples is somewhat indicative of the situation.

To summarize I don’t know where you got that idea, but just in my limited experience I can see that most people have changed greatly. The ones I did not notice change are just the ones that I interact with on a daily basis. I’m sure they did as well but I was never apart from them so I never really noticed the slow changes taking place.
Last edited by Hadrianus on Wed May 21, 2014 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pareidolic Icons

#30
Well I am thrilled that the idea has so much support.

I fully agree that this could fit well with the nodal theme, and now that anything in LT can access a wide range of information about anything else, I think individual Pareidolic icons could express a very substantial amount of information in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Certainly the lines, if composed of nodal strings could not only vary in color, thickness, length, brightness , angular harshness, density, etc. but they could be rendered in 3 dimensions and have animations and even pcg sounds to give them life. You may be able to tell not only their personalities, but their attitudes towards various proposals, their distance from you, their health, wealth, plans, loyalty, honesty, confidence, hostility, etc. with varying degrees of pokerface.

By animating the lines (mouthes that curve upwards when happy, down when sad, eyebrows that shift to harsh angles when angry or devious, eyes that narrow when suspicious, etc.) or by colors flourishing at the tips of strings, lines growing or shrinking in length and thickness and brightness, you could graphically display a significant amount of data.

Pseudo spaces could be created in strings by giving a node null thickness or null brightness, this null state could be used for animating strings with pulses of light and color, or could be always present and only activated by experiences (scars, wrinkles)

As to factions, I agree that maybe symmetry is not always desirable for symbols. I am playing with some ideas on procedural strings of light and color and will upload the images when I am not on a mobile network. my thoughts are though that factions would get 2 symbols: a 3D volumetric hologram, composed of shapes like shown in the ship editor from long ago, arranged in radial, angular, fernlike or other nodal styles that were presented in the data editor videos... these symbols could even be actual dynamic representations of the factions assets, attitudes and specialty. The second symbol would be an orthographic, more conventional thing which Could be stamped onto various assets...

actually now that I think about it, that first idea sounds like it would be too complicated for a symbol, but would be a fantastic visual way to see your factional assets and visually manage your empire...



@cha0zz I do, but I would be happy to make you one, send me a PM with a rough idea of what you want and I'll see what I can do.
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