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Re: Availability and diversity

#31
McDuff wrote:Mate. Look, not to be too much of a dick about this, but you can't just say "wurgh general class of costs!" and then pretend that I didn't just list the things that actually form the fixed costs of a manufacturing process, and why they don't apply in LT.

What are the specific things you think form the fixed costs of the system?

What is the fixed cost system that means I cannot tell my infinitely variable manufacturing process to make small quantities of a variable product line and then restock based on what sells?
Well I did not want to point these things out but ok if you insist.

First of all , the running cost is not a Fixed Cost at all, it would not be a Fixed Cost even if you had one in the LT universe.. This is how I established that you clearly have no idea what a Fixed Cost is. A running cost is in fact the opposite of a Fixed Cost that is to say a Variable Cost. Again such a mistake could be made only by one who had no idea what a fixed cost is.

Second, a retooling cost is not a fixed cost either, it is an indirect cost. Or it might not be a cost at all if you have a standing maintenance department who gets paid regardless of the amount of work done in their work program. But again these are just minor details.

Look Up Fixed Costs! You have no clue what they are thus my previous explanations on the viability of mass productions can't make any sense to you. And they won't until you know what a Fixed Cost is.

I apologies to any moderators reading this I understand we are going a bit off topic with the economy lessons
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Re: Availability and diversity

#32
Hadrianus wrote:
McDuff wrote:Mate. Look, not to be too much of a dick about this, but you can't just say "wurgh general class of costs!" and then pretend that I didn't just list the things that actually form the fixed costs of a manufacturing process, and why they don't apply in LT.

What are the specific things you think form the fixed costs of the system?

What is the fixed cost system that means I cannot tell my infinitely variable manufacturing process to make small quantities of a variable product line and then restock based on what sells?
Well I did not want to point these things out but ok if you insist.

First of all , the running cost is not a Fixed Cost at all, it would not be a Fixed Cost even if you had one in the LT universe.. This is how I established that you clearly have no idea what a Fixed Cost is. A running cost is in fact the opposite of a Fixed Cost that is to say a Variable Cost. Again such a mistake could be made only by one who had no idea what a fixed cost is.

Second, a retooling cost is not a fixed cost either, it is an indirect cost. Or it might not be a cost at all if you have a standing maintenance department who gets paid regardless of the amount of work done in their work program. But again these are just minor details.

Look Up Fixed Costs! You have no clue what they are thus my previous explanations on the viability of mass productions can't make any sense to you. And they won't until you know what a Fixed Cost is.

I apologies to any moderators reading this I understand we are going a bit off topic with the economy lessons
you could start getting some understandment by taking some work yourself and post a Wikipedia Link to fixed costs,
or by telling us in a simple sentence that fixed costs are costs that are always there, even if you are not producing anything (buerocracy, electricity, etc..)

also: there are no confirmed fixed costs in LT, at least no costs that you cannot avoid by using robots instead of hired NPC, so we assumed them to be zero, which explains this whole misunderstanding here.

could everybody now stop bitching around and start behaving like a calm grown up person?
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Re: Availability and diversity

#33
There are no fixed costs? Does that mean we don't count things like factories, or the ship you're currently using to coordinate the constructor bots, or the purpose-built manufacturing space station? Because those are pretty big fixed costs.
Spacecredentials: looks at stars sometimes, cheated at X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, killed a titan once.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#34
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Hadrianus wrote:
McDuff wrote:Mate. Look, not to be too much of a dick about this, but you can't just say "wurgh general class of costs!" and then pretend that I didn't just list the things that actually form the fixed costs of a manufacturing process, and why they don't apply in LT.

What are the specific things you think form the fixed costs of the system?

What is the fixed cost system that means I cannot tell my infinitely variable manufacturing process to make small quantities of a variable product line and then restock based on what sells?
Well I did not want to point these things out but ok if you insist.

First of all , the running cost is not a Fixed Cost at all, it would not be a Fixed Cost even if you had one in the LT universe.. This is how I established that you clearly have no idea what a Fixed Cost is. A running cost is in fact the opposite of a Fixed Cost that is to say a Variable Cost. Again such a mistake could be made only by one who had no idea what a fixed cost is.

Second, a retooling cost is not a fixed cost either, it is an indirect cost. Or it might not be a cost at all if you have a standing maintenance department who gets paid regardless of the amount of work done in their work program. But again these are just minor details.

Look Up Fixed Costs! You have no clue what they are thus my previous explanations on the viability of mass productions can't make any sense to you. And they won't until you know what a Fixed Cost is.

I apologies to any moderators reading this I understand we are going a bit off topic with the economy lessons
you could start getting some understandment by taking some work yourself and post a Wikipedia Link to fixed costs,
or by telling us in a simple sentence that fixed costs are costs that are always there, even if you are not producing anything (buerocracy, electricity, etc..)

also: there are no confirmed fixed costs in LT, at least no costs that you cannot avoid by using robots instead of hired NPC, so we assumed them to be zero, which explains this whole misunderstanding here.

could everybody now stop bitching around and start behaving like a calm grown up person?
Well there are fixed cost in LT, namely the cost of purchasing a manufacturing module. Say you have to buy a module that builds missiles. You then have to cover the cost of that module, thus fixed cost.

As for electricity it depends on the case, if we are talking about the electricity used to produce something that is a variable cost, if we are talking about electricity for lighting than that is an indirect and fixed cost. Usually at least.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#35
So what are the fixed costs that you have in mind? You haven't specified them.

Cost of plant/depreciation? Wages?

We're talking about the specific case in which a production line is constrained to one type of output as opposed to many different kinds of output. The "fixed cost" would therefore be the sunk cost of changing the output, not of the entire manufacturing process. We are assuming we're producing something at all times here, right?

I am not sure you understand what "retooling" means. It is a fixed cost. It takes a certain amount of capital investment to convert a production line to a state where it can produce widgets rather than geegaws. People don't retool all the time because they need to break even on the retooling process. If retooling costs = 0 then a production line can vary its output without penalty.

The questions you need to answer are these:

Why does it cost more for my production line, with all its attendant fixed costs, whatever they are, to produce different outputs?

Why does it cost me less to keep producing the same thing?


You haven't specified anything you just keep saying "wurgh fixed costs fixed costs" without specifying what constitutes the fixed costs in the manufacturing process under discussion.

Please to aim for some relevant detail kthx.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#38
McDuff wrote:So what are the fixed costs that you have in mind? You haven't specified them.

Cost of plant/depreciation? Wages?

We're talking about the specific case in which a production line is constrained to one type of output as opposed to many different kinds of output. The "fixed cost" would therefore be the sunk cost of changing the output, not of the entire manufacturing process. We are assuming we're producing something at all times here, right?

I am not sure you understand what "retooling" means. It is a fixed cost. It takes a certain amount of capital investment to convert a production line to a state where it can produce widgets rather than geegaws. People don't retool all the time because they need to break even on the retooling process. If retooling costs = 0 then a production line can vary its output without penalty.

The questions you need to answer are these:

Why does it cost more for my production line, with all its attendant fixed costs, whatever they are, to produce different outputs?

Why does it cost me less to keep producing the same thing?


You haven't specified anything you just keep saying "wurgh fixed costs fixed costs" without specifying what constitutes the fixed costs in the manufacturing process under discussion.

Please to aim for some relevant detail kthx.
I am getting tired of telling you to look up fixed costs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_cost here follow this and say thank you to cornflakes.

Either you look up fixed costs or this conversation is over. I can't have a conversation with a person than thinks he knows something and then proceeds to make stuff up.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#39
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
fatmop wrote:There are no fixed costs? Does that mean we don't count things like factories, or the ship you're currently using to coordinate the constructor bots, or the purpose-built manufacturing space station? Because those are pretty big fixed costs.
buying new stations counts as fixed costs? strange verbs are used in economy talk
A fixed cost is often the cost of purchasing a Fixed Asset. As you can see the name tends to stick to a lot of things.

To answer your question yes the cost of a space station is a fixed cost
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Re: Availability and diversity

#40
Hadrianus wrote:
fatmop wrote:There are no fixed costs? Does that mean we don't count things like factories, or the ship you're currently using to coordinate the constructor bots, or the purpose-built manufacturing space station? Because those are pretty big fixed costs.
Listen to the man! He knows of what he speaks
You've just demonstrated you don't actually understand what's going on.

The fixed costs of a manufacturing plant are not the problem. We're assuming the manufacturing plant is always producing something, be that 1000 copies of 1 thing or 1000 different things.

We're talking specifically about the fixed costs of altering that output, which in LT is 0.

Blueprints are, in one sense, a fixed cost of change, but they're a one-time cost which gets wrapped back into the overall manufacturing cost base. Once I have a blueprint for Lasers and a blueprint for Shields, I can either produce 500 shields and then 500 lasers, or laser-shield-laser-shield-laser-shield until I have 500 of each. Neither costs me any more.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#42
McDuff wrote:
Hadrianus wrote:
fatmop wrote:There are no fixed costs? Does that mean we don't count things like factories, or the ship you're currently using to coordinate the constructor bots, or the purpose-built manufacturing space station? Because those are pretty big fixed costs.
Listen to the man! He knows of what he speaks
You've just demonstrated you don't actually understand what's going on.

The fixed costs of a manufacturing plant are not the problem. We're assuming the manufacturing plant is always producing something, be that 1000 copies of 1 thing or 1000 different things.

We're talking specifically about the fixed costs of altering that output, which in LT is 0.

Blueprints are, in one sense, a fixed cost of change, but they're a one-time cost which gets wrapped back into the overall manufacturing cost base. Once I have a blueprint for Lasers and a blueprint for Shields, I can either produce 500 shields and then 500 lasers, or laser-shield-laser-shield-laser-shield until I have 500 of each. Neither costs me any more.

Ever heard the cliche saying of "time is money"? Ever though that if you are alternating your production you loose time thus you produce less thus you distribute your Fixed Costs on a lower number of items thus you limit your profit by supporting the same costs on a smaller income.
So am I to understand you did not look up Fixed Costs Even after I provided you with a link? Thank you! This conversation is as far as I'm concerned over. I do not converse with the arrogantly ignorant.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#44
Hadrianus wrote: Ever heard the cliche saying of "time is money"? Ever though that if you are alternating your production you loose time thus you produce less thus you distribute your Fixed Costs on a lower number of items thus you limit your profit by supporting the same costs on a smaller income.
So am I to understand you did not look up Fixed Costs Even after I provided you with a link? Thank you! This conversation is as far as I'm concerned over. I do not converse with the arrogantly ignorant.
you dont loose ANY time if your process is 3D printing based, as it is widely accepted that constructing is some kind of 3D printing in LT
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Re: Availability and diversity

#45
Ever though that if you are alternating your production you loose time thus you produce less
A) No you don't. This has already been covered. "Retooling" costs nothing and takes no time.

B) Even if you did incur some small cost of T, that's more than made up for by the fact that you weren't overstocking with potentially unsellable products in that time. That's what "just in time" stock distribution takes into account.

I'd love to know what assumptions you're making about the distribution of demand here. If I make my 500 lasers all in one go and my 500 shields all in one go, while my production chain is producing lasers I can't ship any shields to market. That's a pretty high opportunity cost - I don't know if you understand how to take that into account, though.

You're talking about T = money but you seem to be neglecting T everywhere else and assuming that supply creates its own demand instantaneously. Forcing my production process to produce an infinite number of lasers instantaneously doesn't mean I'll make infinite profits unless I also have an infinite market who can all arrive instantaneously. Overstocking relative to demand means I'm going to wind down my production lines and leave them idle - which is really where your problems with fixed plant costs come in.

You might also want to look up the art of winding your neck in.

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