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Re: Availability and diversity

#16
ravener96 wrote:
there are more than 4 m4's in the world, if you like your ak you can get another one. the problem in the prototype is that every weapon is more or less one of a kind.
OK, a couple of points that should be obvious but apparently aren't.

Prototype != finished game.

Laser with similar stats = laser with similar stats. It doesn't matter if it's a Honda Blaster II or a Daewoo Shooter III. If it's got X Dam and Y range and Z shootyspeed and whatever else, what's the problem?

If you really want a particular kind of gun and you can't get it anywhere, why not go find the manufacturer and say "hey I would like to buy these guns off you, can you make them for me please?"
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Re: Availability and diversity

#17
McDuff wrote:
ravener96 wrote:
there are more than 4 m4's in the world, if you like your ak you can get another one. the problem in the prototype is that every weapon is more or less one of a kind.
OK, a couple of points that should be obvious but apparently aren't.

Prototype != finished game.

Laser with similar stats = laser with similar stats. It doesn't matter if it's a Honda Blaster II or a Daewoo Shooter III. If it's got X Dam and Y range and Z shootyspeed and whatever else, what's the problem?

If you really want a particular kind of gun and you can't get it anywhere, why not go find the manufacturer and say "hey I would like to buy these guns off you, can you make them for me please?"
I think the point of this post was to make the economy more realistic.
Yes, I agree there should be diversity but there should also be quantity. When was the last time you went into a store or a purchase website and you only saw items that were one of a kind or that the store/website only had one in its inventory? That is not how the economy works.
In fact for a manufacturer it is more profitable to manufacture in bulk (given that the item made gets sold) due to the fact that fixed costs are distributed among a larger number of items and thus increase the profitability each said item sold.
Given that state of affairs you also have to take into consideration branding, if the same manufacturer were to give a different name to each item made even though they are the same then he would make less profit simply because the consumer is not aware of the ARTIFICIAL diversity of the product and even though he/she was satisfied with the first product, he can no longer find a product with the same name and thus is not willing to buy it.
A compromise and a realistic possibility to this would be something similar to what is happening in the auto industry. Take Volkswagen, everybody has heard of the VW Golf, so they don’t remove that part from the name. They just add something like VW Golf 1, 2, 3,… etc. This is not only realistic but practical. Since you let the consumer know it is similar to the product they are looking for but perhaps better because it is a newer generation of the same product.

Again this is a matter of realism in the LT economy.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#18
"Realistic" economies presuppose certain starting conditions.

When was the last time you could custom build any item you liked with a 3D printer? That's right, the technology isn't there yet.

A "realistic" economy in which people will be able to produce any kind of item with a few basic manufacturing components will, in fact, lead to a very wide diversity of products and a tendency towards bespoke as well as mass produced.

And in an interesting universe, this is a good thing.

(I don't understand people sometimes. "Yeah, I'd really like the game to play like Borderlands 2. But could it have fewer guns?")
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Re: Availability and diversity

#19
McDuff wrote:"Realistic" economies presuppose certain starting conditions.

When was the last time you could custom build any item you liked with a 3D printer? That's right, the technology isn't there yet.

A "realistic" economy in which people will be able to produce any kind of item with a few basic manufacturing components will, in fact, lead to a very wide diversity of products and a tendency towards bespoke as well as mass produced.

And in an interesting universe, this is a good thing.

(I don't understand people sometimes. "Yeah, I'd really like the game to play like Borderlands 2. But could it have fewer guns?")
who has proposed that anyone can just sit down with materials and make anything? i dont know if you realize this, but you can aleredy make almost anything in real life, the equipment to do so may be expensive though. in a devlog from a while back josh showed off a construction module and mentioned that only stations and capital ships get to use it. my question is how josh will stop them from just making a new product every time they start up and how designs will be distributed.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#20
ravener96 wrote: who has proposed that anyone can just sit down with materials and make anything? i dont know if you realize this, but you can aleredy make almost anything in real life, the equipment to do so may be expensive though. in a devlog from a while back josh showed off a construction module and mentioned that only stations and capital ships get to use it. my question is how josh will stop them from just making a new product every time they start up and how designs will be distributed.
you'd need every time a new blueprint when you want to build another weapon/shield whatever, and those blueprints do you either have to research or buy, which both needs resources.
so if you always make 2 or 3 pieces of everything you'd need very cheap blueprints or veeery profitable objects, which both is very unlikely to pay itself in a few pieces
or you are stupid to stop producing so profitable objects in only so small quantities
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Re: Availability and diversity

#21
McDuff wrote:"Realistic" economies presuppose certain starting conditions.

When was the last time you could custom build any item you liked with a 3D printer? That's right, the technology isn't there yet.

A "realistic" economy in which people will be able to produce any kind of item with a few basic manufacturing components will, in fact, lead to a very wide diversity of products and a tendency towards bespoke as well as mass produced.

And in an interesting universe, this is a good thing.

(I don't understand people sometimes. "Yeah, I'd really like the game to play like Borderlands 2. But could it have fewer guns?")
We are talking about manufactures here. Sure I could make a milk shake myself and make it different each time I make one. But if I buy one from the store they are not going to have one of a kind milkshakes.

I never said you could not make something unique, but nice straw man you made there, he never stood a chance. I said that stores should not work in that way simply because it would not be economically viable.
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Re: Availability and diversity

#22
Why not?

Assume retooling costs = 0, and supply can be adjusted easily based on shifting demand.

We already have Just In Time stock management in place in the 21st century. What's the point of keeping large warehouses full of stock when you could limit your exposure to risk by keeping your capital liquid until you really need to make something?
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Re: Availability and diversity

#23
McDuff wrote:Why not?

Assume retooling costs = 0, and supply can be adjusted easily based on shifting demand.

We already have Just In Time stock management in place in the 21st century. What's the point of keeping large warehouses full of stock when you could limit your exposure to risk by keeping your capital liquid until you really need to make something?
Two words "Fixed Costs" Do some research then talk!

I explained this above but you were too busy with a straw man depiction of me.
8-)
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Re: Availability and diversity

#24
Um, I think you misunderstand both what "straw man" means and the concept underlying the model here. To repeat myself:
Assume retooling costs = 0, and supply can be adjusted easily based on shifting demand.
Once you have a blueprint, a construction drone can build any kind of ship. It doesn't matter whether it builds a fighter or a dreadnaught, or what order it does it in.

Why are you continuing to try to map 20th century microeconomics onto a totally different system, rather than deriving the model from the technology?
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Re: Availability and diversity

#25
McDuff wrote:Um, I think you misunderstand both what "straw man" means and the concept underlying the model here. To repeat myself:
Assume retooling costs = 0, and supply can be adjusted easily based on shifting demand.
Once you have a blueprint, a construction drone can build any kind of ship. It doesn't matter whether it builds a fighter or a dreadnaught, or what order it does it in.

Why are you continuing to try to map 20th century microeconomics onto a totally different system, rather than deriving the model from the technology?
1 Those are a lot of assumptions you’re making there, I don’t like assumptions. Better to go with the knowledge you have unless it is proven wrong.
2 You still have not looked up what FIXED COSTS are. They are inherent to all manufacturing industries regardless of the technology used. Unless you have a Ginny in a lamp that can make all your wishes come true.

Again I say look up fixed costs!
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Re: Availability and diversity

#30
Mate. Look, not to be too much of a dick about this, but you can't just say "wurgh general class of costs!" and then pretend that I didn't just list the things that actually form the fixed costs of a manufacturing process, and why they don't apply in LT.

What are the specific things you think form the fixed costs of the system?

What is the fixed cost system that means I cannot tell my infinitely variable manufacturing process to make small quantities of a variable product line and then restock based on what sells?

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