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Empire Expansion/Management

#1
Not sure if this should be in the suggestion section or not, but this is more of a "brainstorm" than a cohesive idea. Feel free to move it along to suggestions if you feel it'd fit there. :D And please forgive me if anything I said has been

I've always thought that a Rise of Nations/Civilization type empire expansion/border thing in a space sim would be pretty epic. To be able to literally colonize space and expand based on your influence. To be able to see it visually across the system map. Awesome. I think if you had that, plus throw in the city/political system of Guild II (show up for elections, etc), it could take the sim part to a new level. I don't think we've seen too many space sims where you could take a political route and work your way up the government ladder into important positions within a faction. Would be nice to see. Working on signing trade treaties, managing commerce and taxes, maybe take the military ladder and manage defenses and battle tactics. More of the decision aspects that shape an empire.

Now I rater hate politics (real life politics anyway), but I'd be all for something like this in a space sim. Normally something like this would be a little daunting in this kind of game, but I think with Josh's node-based hud it could definitely be doable. After all, it's really only about data. Something that could be managed while still flying around exploring. Even if it wasn't as crazy in-depth and you were an ambassador for an empire trusted to make decisions while you explored. But I love options of playstyle. Typically in games like these it's merchant, fighting aspect of the military, miner, or pirate routes. Let's get a political side going LT!

Any thoughts?
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#3
Aarioch wrote:That sounds alot like Galactic Civilization 2 (cause i never played 1)....

Also something very similar is being discussed in This Thread
Close. But I'm not particularly talking about expanding via war and eliminating other factions/empires. Mainly expanding into empty space on an influence basis. More SimCity/Guild II than the 4x/RTS games. Of course I did mention Rise of Nations and Civ, but only meant to reference their visuals of being able to see your influence expand. In other words, the actual AI of which factions likes/hates who would still be all AI based. You'd just be able to take a bit more of role in which direction a colony's influence takes toward certain factions. Based on laws you pass, etc etc.

But yeah, I'm much more referring to the sim aspect of this than say taking a fleet of ships on a hostile takeover of a neighboring empire/faction and genocide ;)

Oh, and GalCiv2 is pretty darn awesome. Only played about 3 hours of it, but it's pretty fun. Like Civ in space.
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#4
Limit Theory seems to work in real time and with as few abstractions as possible. I'm not sure that to handle a civilization in the way that Civilization does it is consistent with the way this game works. It's a completely different style of game.

Also, you start the game being part of a rich and varied universe full of history. You're not the one who controls everything, but a small part of the whole. I think the strategic part, for those who like it, will be closer to the way in which the Homeworld games work, but hopefully in a slightly deeper and more complex way.
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#5
Vandrick wrote: Close. But I'm not particularly talking about expanding via war and eliminating other factions/empires. Mainly expanding into empty space on an influence basis. More SimCity/Guild II than the 4x/RTS games. Of course I did mention Rise of Nations and Civ, but only meant to reference their visuals of being able to see your influence expand. In other words, the actual AI of which factions likes/hates who would still be all AI based. You'd just be able to take a bit more of role in which direction a colony's influence takes toward certain factions. Based on laws you pass, etc etc.

But yeah, I'm much more referring to the sim aspect of this than say taking a fleet of ships on a hostile takeover of a neighboring empire/faction and genocide ;)

Oh, and GalCiv2 is pretty darn awesome. Only played about 3 hours of it, but it's pretty fun. Like Civ in space.
Gotcha :D

Yeah i put in about 50 hours... and still not sure why I stopped playing...life interrupted I guess...

In the other thread (you would probably like the read - I did) they are getting into the node based UI and how they think it would be perfect for the same type of thing you are referring to. It's a good thread I recommend it, even if just for the read.

sidenote: Anyone can tell me how to bookmark/favorite threads? I read a number of them but don't have much constructive to add... and haven't noticed a way to mark them.


:D
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it" ~Confucius
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#6
Vandrick wrote:
Aarioch wrote:That sounds alot like Galactic Civilization 2 (cause i never played 1)....

Also something very similar is being discussed in This Thread
Close. But I'm not particularly talking about expanding via war and eliminating other factions/empires. Mainly expanding into empty space on an influence basis. More SimCity/Guild II than the 4x/RTS games. Of course I did mention Rise of Nations and Civ, but only meant to reference their visuals of being able to see your influence expand. In other words, the actual AI of which factions likes/hates who would still be all AI based. You'd just be able to take a bit more of role in which direction a colony's influence takes toward certain factions. Based on laws you pass, etc etc.

But yeah, I'm much more referring to the sim aspect of this than say taking a fleet of ships on a hostile takeover of a neighboring empire/faction and genocide ;)

Oh, and GalCiv2 is pretty darn awesome. Only played about 3 hours of it, but it's pretty fun. Like Civ in space.
GalCiv2 let you do that though, there was a map mode called Influence. It primarily referred to cultural influence (you could cause colonies to rebel and join your empire if your influence was strong enough :)), but the principle was the same/similar. Your 'influenced space' could also be expanded using certain kinds of space stations.
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#7
I like true strategic-level gameplay myself. And since there doesn't appear to be an obvious need in Limit Theory for an artificial cap on the number of fleets a player can amass or the number of planets controllable, it would seem there's at least a crack in the door for some strategy gameplay (preferably with at least a little UI support).

That said, Josh has spoken: "we don't need this to become the next Sim City :roll: "

So, while it's hard for me, I'm trying to remember to scale back my hopes. Dogfighting, mining, research, exploration and some (presumably RTS-like) fleet management are all basically confirmed at this time, but 4X-like empire management gameplay seems less likely with each passing day. That doesn't stop me from the occasional nutty suggestion, of course. :) And I have zero doubt that I will completely enjoy LT in whatever form it takes at launch.

All of this is, I should note, just my impression; Josh is the final and authoritative word on what will and won't be in the game.
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#8
Im just hoping with trade and expansion there is competiton from the AI. Grinding trade and expansion is great and generaly norm but to be able to do that in a constant changing and challenging environment with AI that make you earn it and want to bring you down if you grow to powerful. Having to fend of pirates while beating other merchant ships to the top prices rocks my boat, its all about the challenge for me...just my thoughts anyways
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#9
@flatfingers,

I get what your saying about not having detailed and strategic empire control, but I don't see how we can have planatary and faction ownership with some sort of way to control your territory and interact with other factions and planets. Josh has said in the last that he wants to give us as many tools as he can, I would think this would be necessary. I guess only Josh can tell us what he has planned here for macro level gameplay.
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#10
Yeah, something like the empire building would be a little out of scope with LT I think. But something like they have in Guild II could work. Maybe with a little mix of Anno 2048. More like votes that shape things...or at least nudge things in a certain direction. In Anno all you do is simply vote for certain things. In Guild II, you can run for certain positions, but you never get consumed by micromanaging the position. For example, you can run for Master of the Guild. If you win, you're can get a few perks that come with the job, as well as a salary. You can order inspections on any business you want. There are a couple other perks as well, but very limited. You hold the position until the next election where AI can run against you.

I don't think something along those lines would be too intrusive to gameplay or make it too sim-ish. It could run in the background for the most part. But it would still add a feeling of importance to your role in the universe. Have each position simply have 2 or 3 perks that could give you an edge. Maybe change some empire laws (set import tax, allow monopolies, etc). You basically will play the game like normal, but have the option to get more embedded with a particular empire or faction. As an empire's borders expand (just a simple influence thing like maybe wealthy, military size...all AI-based), perhaps more positions of office can open up.

Office Positions
Guildmaster
(Perk One) Order inspections on business/factories: Halts/slows production for a short time.
(Perk Two) Set Import/Export Tax: Might bring in more trade with less tax, more money and less trade with more tax.
(Perk Three) Set Business Laws: Sell monopoly rights to companies, set to fair/even trade, etc.

Chief of Intelligence
(Perk One) Order Investigation: You can order an investigation on a particular ship/person. Good to gather evidence of criminal activity.
(Perk Two) Infiltration: Can send two agents to infiltrate other organizations. Reveals detailed useful information otherwise unobtainable.
(Perk Three) Set Bounty: Can set a bounty on any ship. Ship's contents delivered to your base/ship.

These are just a couple offices and examples of the limited yet fun things that could be done without taking you away from gameplay. More ideas welcome!
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Re: Empire Expansion/Management

#11
Also, empire expansion even exclusively AI-driven makes sense. If the AI will be as complex as Josh wants it to be :D . You figure your reputation with particular factions grows the more you do for them. So it stands to reason that all the other AI ships out there can have a reputation increasing with them as well (the more they trade with them, the more they fight against an empire's enemies/kill pirates, etc). Expansion could be auto-generated based on how many ships/people achieve "favorable" standing with said faction. If an empire has a lot of merchant conglomerates, mining companies, bounty hunters, etc all in favorable standing, it stands to reason that empire's influence radius would increase.

In fact, I actually like that idea more than the idea of having a more direct control over an empire (placing buildings, expanding sans Sims and Rise of Nations, conquering rival empires). I think this way, you can have a more subtle affect on an Empire. Want to cause an Empire to struggle? Hijack neutral merchant ships running missions for said empire. Merchant ship and those in its faction lose favor with the empire. Do it enough, they drop out of "favorable" status (or keep them from hitting "favorable"). This could shrink that empire's influence radius, or at the very least, stop it from expanding.

Okay, I've ramble enough tonight!

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