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How do we Measure time?

Hours, years, Months, ect...
Total votes: 31 (50%)
Light
Total votes: 7 (11%)
Faction relayes
Total votes: 5 (8%)
Stardates
Total votes: 18 (29%)
Other, please sugest below
Total votes: 1 (2%)
Total votes: 62
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Re: Time

#46
JoshParnell wrote: In that regard, I think what really matters here is: how long is the historical generation phase in comparison to real-time gameplay? That answer will be determined solely by the efficiency of that phase when it is implemented. My preliminary goal was for about 3600x acceleration, or one hour of game time for every second of simulation - meaning almost two weeks could be simulated in 5 minutes of generating time (NOTE: creating a new universe will take slightly longer than your average game load, but creating a new character in an existing universe takes almost no time). But I will also play tricks with the durations of actions to accelerate it further. Ultimately I am hopeful that several months, if not a year or so, of game time can be simulated.
This is quite surprising. I was expecting historical generation to cover millennia, basically, so that empires can be created, evolve and die. That would make a real cool and deep backstory for factions and planets...
I guess you target more at a procedural generation of universe and a head start for some NPC to have people at different levels around.
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Re: Time

#47
CSE wrote:
JoshParnell wrote: In that regard, I think what really matters here is: how long is the historical generation phase in comparison to real-time gameplay? That answer will be determined solely by the efficiency of that phase when it is implemented. My preliminary goal was for about 3600x acceleration, or one hour of game time for every second of simulation - meaning almost two weeks could be simulated in 5 minutes of generating time (NOTE: creating a new universe will take slightly longer than your average game load, but creating a new character in an existing universe takes almost no time). But I will also play tricks with the durations of actions to accelerate it further. Ultimately I am hopeful that several months, if not a year or so, of game time can be simulated.
This is quite surprising. I was expecting historical generation to cover millennia, basically, so that empires can be created, evolve and die. That would make a real cool and deep backstory for factions and planets...
I guess you target more at a procedural generation of universe and a head start for some NPC to have people at different levels around.
I was expecting millennia's worth of history generation as well.
Last edited by ThymineC on Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post

Re: Time

#48
Since planetary simulation isn't in, I was expecting 100-200 years worth of simulation.
Though it probably depends what the starting parameters are.

Suppose each faction gets a random jump in research for each field, that could cause enough technological difference between factions. That would be a lot of cause and effect that wouldn't have to be simulated any more. It can just be.

I also doubt we'll be able to get a very detailed history of each sector, like what battles took place in the last 1000 years. That info probably won't be of interest either. But if the info is there, it doesn't mean it needed to be simulated. The last battles would have largely formed the system to what it is today.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Time

#49
JoshParnell wrote: In that regard, I think what really matters here is: how long is the historical generation phase in comparison to real-time gameplay? That answer will be determined solely by the efficiency of that phase when it is implemented. My preliminary goal was for about 3600x acceleration, or one hour of game time for every second of simulation - meaning almost two weeks could be simulated in 5 minutes of generating time (NOTE: creating a new universe will take slightly longer than your average game load, but creating a new character in an existing universe takes almost no time). But I will also play tricks with the durations of actions to accelerate it further. Ultimately I am hopeful that several months, if not a year or so, of game time can be simulated.

That might not sound like a whole lot, but consider the fact that game time is already accelerated compared to real time. If you had logged a full year of game time in the same universe, you would expect it to have changed totally and completely, many times over, by that point in time :squirrel:
You mean history generation would be done by simulating the game in full quality but without graphics at an acceleration?
Why full quality, just remove the detail, less calculations => higher acceleration => more (complex) history
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Re: Time

#50
Cha0zz wrote:
JoshParnell wrote: In that regard, I think what really matters here is: how long is the historical generation phase in comparison to real-time gameplay? That answer will be determined solely by the efficiency of that phase when it is implemented. My preliminary goal was for about 3600x acceleration, or one hour of game time for every second of simulation - meaning almost two weeks could be simulated in 5 minutes of generating time (NOTE: creating a new universe will take slightly longer than your average game load, but creating a new character in an existing universe takes almost no time). But I will also play tricks with the durations of actions to accelerate it further. Ultimately I am hopeful that several months, if not a year or so, of game time can be simulated.

That might not sound like a whole lot, but consider the fact that game time is already accelerated compared to real time. If you had logged a full year of game time in the same universe, you would expect it to have changed totally and completely, many times over, by that point in time :squirrel:
You mean history generation would be done by simulating the game in full quality but without graphics at an acceleration?
Why full quality, just remove the detail, less calculations => higher acceleration => more (complex) history
not full detail as this and vey old statements from josh suggest more of an more abstract simulation
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Re: Time

#51
Even if Josh can only simulate one actual-year of game-time during history generation, I'd at least like it if the game pretended that thousands of years passed during that time. For instance, during history generation just multiply all date-times by, for instance, a factor of 10,000 or so. That might be enough to help keep me immersed.
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Re: Time

#52
I don't reckon Josh is planning to simulate from the Big Bang to whatever time the player jumps in....right? Eg. Billions of years worth of history...now I wonder if my HDD space will be sufficient. :lol:
In Josh we trust.
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Re: Time

#53
The 'amount' of history generation goes back to the same idea of how much the universe changes from one point in time to another.

If that 2 weeks ( 336 in-game hours) makes the universe almost unrecognizable from the starting point, then that would probably be enough. It also means that once you've put 100 or so hours into a game, you can see the universe evolve and what effects (if any) you have on the system.

The other problem, is that if you generate a millenia of history and it takes that long in order for changes mentioned above to be seen, it also means that putting in 100-200 hours into a game means the system would be incredibly resilient to any changes.

Think more of a piece of rubber. The softer it is, the more it can change and the more susceptible it is to change (thus 'quick' history generation) and the person holding it has more input into it. The harder it is, the more resilient to change and the more 'effort' it takes to change what is there.

This is going to probably be a point of contention because 'rate of change' is something that needs to be fine tuned.

When put into this perspective, simulating over 200 some-odd in-game hours is probably a good compromise.
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Re: Time

#54
DWMagus wrote:The 'amount' of history generation goes back to the same idea of how much the universe changes from one point in time to another.

If that 2 weeks ( 336 in-game hours) makes the universe almost unrecognizable from the starting point, then that would probably be enough. It also means that once you've put 100 or so hours into a game, you can see the universe evolve and what effects (if any) you have on the system.

The other problem, is that if you generate a millenia of history and it takes that long in order for changes mentioned above to be seen, it also means that putting in 100-200 hours into a game means the system would be incredibly resilient to any changes.

Think more of a piece of rubber. The softer it is, the more it can change and the more susceptible it is to change (thus 'quick' history generation) and the person holding it has more input into it. The harder it is, the more resilient to change and the more 'effort' it takes to change what is there.

This is going to probably be a point of contention because 'rate of change' is something that needs to be fine tuned.

When put into this perspective, simulating over 200 some-odd in-game hours is probably a good compromise.
Going with the rubber analogy, I would like it if the game universe is more 'elastic' during history generation, as well as scaling up the dates which events supposedly occurred to larger timescales. Then when I actually play, the game world becomes more resilient to change. This would have the effect of making it seem like millennia have passed when I've entered the game and ensuring that that illusion is not broken ten hours into the game (which might happen if the universe appears to change as much in a few hours as it did over what was supposedly the past few thousand years).

To make the game world more elastic during generation, I'd imagine you could do things such as reducing the costs associated with different things, in terms of time, credits and resources. Research happens faster, ships can be built cheaper and quicker, etc.
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Re: Time

#55
It makes sense not to have huge changes happen every few hours... You'd have a tough time playing as a trader when you're risking war at every turn, and your contracted stations destroyed.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Time

#56
I'd prefer game time to pass at different rates depending on what I'm doing.
  • Dogfighting and general flight ops: game time = real time
  • Fleet operations: real time with optional full pause for orders
  • Multi-fleet strategic planning: optional full pause
  • Research/production settings: optional full pause
  • System/planetary survey: real time
  • Personal simulation mode: 10x - 100x real time
  • Historical simulation mode (start of game): 5000 game years to every real time minute
Any other modes deserving of their own rates at which game time passes?
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Re: Time

#57
Flatfingers wrote:I'd prefer game time to pass at different rates depending on what I'm doing.
  • Dogfighting and general flight ops: game time = real time
  • Fleet operations: real time with optional full pause for orders
  • Multi-fleet strategic planning: optional full pause
  • Research/production settings: optional full pause
  • System/planetary survey: real time
  • Personal simulation mode: 10x - 100x real time
  • Historical simulation mode (start of game): 5000 game years to every real time minute
Any other modes deserving of their own rates at which game time passes?
Only the slight slowing down of time that I suggest occurs when you're accessing in-game tactical menus such as power/CPU allocation in An Investigation into Practical Resource Allocation.

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