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Even Start

#1
Hello I am new here and thought I would just throw out a suggestion that would really add lots of immersion to the game in my opinion. When the game first starts I would think it would be cool if everyone started out in the same exact ship that is heavily customizeable to fit different roles. As you play the game you will see similar ships to yours or maybe even the same ones. then even farther in the game the NPCs may have developed their own new ship to fit a role better than the previous. Then in the late game when there are many ships it feels good knowing that everyone started the same as you and kept adapting to where they started out and what they wanted to do to develop their ships and operations, and it adds a lot of immersion to know that everyone started out with the same exact thing but the universe became so diverse later. I hope you understand what I mean :)
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Re: Even Start

#2
So basically a race between you and the entire universe? I kinda like that idea.

It's not really what the concept of LT is about though. It's set up to be a player in a huge established universe.
Though, I wouldn't mind at all if this kind of gameplay was available through a sandbox setting of some kind.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Even Start

#3
Welcome to the Forum Mr. Person :wave: :D

An interesting idea. The only concern that I would have is that the procedurally generated universe might have difficulty creating everyone equally in the same exact ship with same hardpoints, inventory, etc...

It might also create a too easy scenario to master an AI that is on the same level to you from the very beginning.
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Re: Even Start

#4
Actually I can see this working perfectly.

I know this is counter to PCG, but Josh has already stated there will be history generation. This would just dump the player at the very beginning of the history generation where is no established economy or anything along those lines. Everyone would be at the basic level.

I *really* like this idea because you can watch the universe 'grow' from the seed instead of being dumped into an already developed one. :thumbup:

BTW, welcome to the forums! :wave:
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: Even Start

#6
DWMagus wrote:Josh has already stated there will be history generation. This would just dump the player at the very beginning of the history generation where is no established economy or anything along those lines. Everyone would be at the basic level.
Indeed with the history generation, but I take it that even the beginning of "time" and the initial history generation of the systems and players has to start by implementing a procedurally created universe to get things going.

Another concern would be if the universe is infinite will we be running into other AIs/NPCs in "discovered" systems or will they be hollow systems that NPCs expand into? I don't believe that this was talked about much yet but if the later, it could work if everyone is equal yet that could take some fun out of the excitement of exploration. Two examples can be had of a non-PCG and PCG game to further explain.

1) In X3 Terrain Conflict X-Tended mod, the universe would slowly "open up" to the player and even NPC factions, where the player and NPC factions could then settle and colonize these systems [Not infinite or PCG]. This could allow for an equal start if the NPCs were all in the same starting region.

2) In Aurora 4x the universe is infinite and the player starts off alone/ with a set amount of NPCs (1 or 2). This game is highly PCG as the universe is infinite and procedurally generated (except the starting SOL system). The history is generated by starting conditions. As the player expands, they can run into other factions that generate when upon being "discovered."

Now the thing stands that if the game is using PCG and contains an infinite universe will the newly discovered faction start off with low end beginner ships or will they try to automatically try to match what the other half of the universe (player side) has been doing?
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Re: Even Start

#9
This is where I don't know how infinite amounts of space would work, as the farther you explore the less and less NPCs you will meet unless as you say, they may spawn more in places you explore. But if its infinite that means there would have to be infinite there would also have to be an infinite amount of factions and resources and such. Which eventually the player may find themselves with too many factions/NPCs to keep up with and become disoriented and not know what to do. I am guessing this is why X3 had borders, so you dont explore so much that you have no idea what to do. (again these are just thoughts and I am bad at putting them together in a way others understand)

But if you have played EVE online like myself, it would be like if you had 4 factions in the entire EVE map and they started on their home planet with the same starter ship you get respective to your faction in EVE. and as the NPCs find things to do or what makes them the most money they would upgrade their ship to meet that role, eventually heavily modifying it so much that its not the same ship anymore and making it able to be marketed as a brand new ship, offering it to other NPCs that may want to do the same thing.

gah, its late here and I hope you can understand what I am trying to say through this babble.
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Re: Even Start

#10
DWMagus wrote:Actually I can see this working perfectly.

I know this is counter to PCG, but Josh has already stated there will be history generation. This would just dump the player at the very beginning of the history generation where is no established economy or anything along those lines. Everyone would be at the basic level.

I *really* like this idea because you can watch the universe 'grow' from the seed instead of being dumped into an already developed one. :thumbup:

BTW, welcome to the forums! :wave:
Phrasing it this way helped me to see how brilliant an idea this is. Total support from me. Welcome to the LT forums. :)
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Re: Even Start

#11
I've been mulling over the start of the game for a while, since there are so many options that are feasible (based on what Josh has hinted at). The suggestion here is a special case of the more general concept that the start of the game is a mini-game in of itself, in which the player gets to watch "history" develop at a much accelerated rate, and then can jump in whenever they like the look of it.

If the player chooses to start when time passed = 0 then the OP should be satisfied. This would be a "frontier" type game in which there's little in the way of civilisation, but more than enough opportunity on your doorstep. In my head, the concept is that you start in the same position as a bunch of NPCs, as if you've all just awoken from a long cryosleep aboard a sleeper ship... or just found the first "jump hole" and emerged in a new region of space.

Alternatively, you can wait for a while whilst systems are discovered and infrastructure built. Jumping into the game at that point should provide a "Freelancer-like" experience.

As more time goes by... who knows what happens? Immediately after a massive inter-factional war may be an interesting time to start a game, for instance.

There are a number of interesting extra features that would be enable by such an approach to the start of the game. Firstly there's the option to check your impact on the universe - by comparing your game vs. the history that would have developed without you playing. Secondly, and possibly more interestingly, there's the concept of automatic "main quest" generation by running history until some huge event and the inserting the player at some earlier stage with the goal of changing the event...
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Re: Even Start

#12
A natural extension to this one would be 1-5 starting rivals that you can check up on at anytime throughout the game while all of you try and race to the top of the economic food chain. Might give the player some direction and give them something to strive toward. Just uncheck the Rivals Mode option at the beginning of the game for those who don't want this type of gameplay.
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Re: Even Start

#13
pulsar9 wrote:A natural extension to this one would be 1-5 starting rivals that you can check up on at anytime throughout the game while all of you try and race to the top of the economic food chain. Might give the player some direction and give them something to strive toward. Just uncheck the Rivals Mode option at the beginning of the game for those who don't want this type of gameplay.
It's post like this that make me miss a "like" option on this forum. Not that I really mind making a new post to show my support!
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Re: Even Start

#14
Katorone wrote:
pulsar9 wrote:A natural extension to this one would be 1-5 starting rivals that you can check up on at anytime throughout the game while all of you try and race to the top of the economic food chain. Might give the player some direction and give them something to strive toward. Just uncheck the Rivals Mode option at the beginning of the game for those who don't want this type of gameplay.
It's post like this that make me miss a "like" option on this forum. Not that I really mind making a new post to show my support!
What he (Katerone) said. Actually, :thumbup: to the whole thread thus far.
mcsven wrote: the player gets to watch "history" develop at a much accelerated rate, and then can jump in whenever they like the look of it.
Now you've got me imagining how beautiful and sleek Josh's version of the Dwarf Fortress worldgen screen would be.. :monkey:
"omg such tech many efficiency WOW" ~ Josh Parnell

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