With several months progress and no update for the LT Prototype I think it's time to start thinking/focus on the Beta instead.

If the kickstarter timeplan with release is still valid and release is planned for Jan 2014, then there are only 4 months of development time left!
(Estimated delivery: Jan 2014)

However seeing the prototype was delayed a bit and other places mentioning "Early 2014" will probably mean March/April instead.


I just wanted to throw this out here, reading the dev logs it looks like most of the building blocks in LT are starting to come together, so I think it's time for you to start thinking/planning about a beta build. Perhaps for the end of Oct/Nov updates?

I think that once the asset generation (procedural ships/stations/planet locations) is starting to see some love feedback from us players will be key to perfecting it.

The problem with having a beta by Oct/Nov, it means that Josh would have to have all game features there. Beta usually means everything is there, functioning correctly and bugs are being ironed out.

Alpha usually means that everything is more-or-less there.

Considering there is still no AI for anything other than docking (from what is mentioned in the dev logs), and pathfinding is just now being implemented, I think even an Alpha for Oct/Nov would be extremely optimistic.

While I would love to have a beta in 1-2 months, realistically we probably won't see beta until closer to the beginning of next year.

Yes a Beta is normally not until feature complete.

I don't think Josh or the kick-starter mentioned anything about an alfa version being distributed to the backers though. The game state right now would certainly qualify as an alfa version imho. From what I've heard you often can't even launch the game until it's in alfa state for other game developments.



There is also the question of what "feature complete" even means in a game that ideally will have zero manually created content... The idea is that the beta is for allowing time for content creation and bug hunting.

If the definition about features is followed to the letter that would mean the Beta and the release version is the same (since no dev time ideally is spent on content creation).

Ixos wrote: There is also the question of what "feature complete" even means in a game that ideally will have zero manually created content... The idea is that the beta is for allowing time for content creation and bug hunting.

When I mention feature complete, I mean AI that can at least do simplistic actions other than be able to dock. I mean, there is not even the basis for economy. As the game stands right now, it's just a graphically enhanced prototype with warp gates. Heck, I don't even think Josh has missions implemented in anything but the prototype.

I'm guessing that 'feature complete' will refer to the ability to create missions dynamically instead of just spawning them, the ability for the AI to trade, and NPCs flying around instead of just hovering in place waiting for the player to interact with them. I guess if that's what you want to consider for this to be considered an alpha, then possibly Oct/Nov.

Ixos wrote:There is also the question of what "feature complete" even means in a game that ideally will have zero manually created content... The idea is that the beta is for allowing time for content creation and bug hunting.

It might be helpful to think in terms of nouns and verbs. Procedurally generated content is like nouns -- it's what gets operated on by the verbs, which are the gameplay mechanics (player actions) and dynamics (world effects).

Feature-complete for something like this still requires the verbs to be developed. The mechanics and dynamics still have to be designed and coded. They also need to be integrated; individual pieces of gameplay thrown together do not a good game make. There needs to be time allocated to making sure the full game as a whole experience feels right.

Just seeing things as a complete outsider, and considering that we're currently talking about the core architectural systems being worked on that are required for the large-scale gameplay, I don't expect beta before next March, or v1 release before May. Anything sooner than that will be great, but I can wait for Full Awesomeness to be applied.

Flatfingers wrote:I don't expect beta before next March, or v1 release before May. Anything sooner than that will be great, but I can wait for Full Awesomeness to be applied.

As you can see in my first post I have also speculated on delays, that Is also why I wrote it, to make Josh aware that people might be expecting a beta soon given the kick-starter delivery date of Jan 2014!

It would be good to get a better ETA update for the Beta and possible release delays during next monthly update from Josh.

Ixos wrote:

Flatfingers wrote:I don't expect beta before next March, or v1 release before May. Anything sooner than that will be great, but I can wait for Full Awesomeness to be applied.

As you can see in my first post I have also speculated on delays, that Is also why I wrote it, to make Josh aware that people might be expecting a beta soon given the kick-starter delivery date of Jan 2014!

It would be good to get a better ETA update for the Beta and possible release delays during next monthly update from Josh.

Yup, I agree.. it's not like I am chomping at the bit to play.. I'm a patient person with other things to spend my time on but knowing that it is being delayed as compared to just guessing and assuming is a different thing. I'm sure that the majority of people who backed the project don't follow the forums and also don't always have the time to read even the monthly updates but they would be still anticipating (not expecting!) a release (any public release of beta or above level) around Jan 2014 because that is the only official release date on KS and no other release/delay information has been "officially" announced.

So it might be good for Josh to just quickly mention it during the monthly update as it is the most likely place the wider community are going to see it. It's good to be upfront about it.. even if there is no specific month planned.. just saying that things are slightly delayed because of such-and-such would be sufficient I think.

I also often wonder when the beta will be announced. I read through ALL of the devlogs and chitter-chatter here on the forums a little as well.. but the "official" only date I have to go off is Jan 2014....

I think it's better we just be patient and let him do his magic and do it right. He already has enough weight upon his shoulders.

Jerek Adams wrote:I think it's better we just be patient and let him do his magic and do it right. He already has enough weight upon his shoulders.

haha, fat joke

Jerek Adams wrote:I think it's better we just be patient and let him do his magic and do it right. He already has enough weight upon his shoulders.

Yes and we are being patient.

Don't misunderstand our desire for official acknowledgement of a change of release date with the desire to have the game finished to the original schedule. We're not saying that at all.

Katawa wrote:

Jerek Adams wrote:I think it's better we just be patient and let him do his magic and do it right. He already has enough weight upon his shoulders.

haha, fat joke

Jerek Adams wrote:

Katawa wrote:

Jerek Adams wrote:I think it's better we just be patient and let him do his magic and do it right. He already has enough weight upon his shoulders.

haha, fat joke

<--- This is Gabe Newell's Half Life 3 soul requirement for every time a fat joke is said on the internet.

The internet cannot display how many souls it's gonna take for the game to finally be made.

Jerek Adams wrote:I think it's better we just be patient and let him do his magic and do it right. He already has enough weight upon his shoulders.

haha, fat joke[/quote]
[/quote]
<--- This is Gabe Newell's Half Life 3 soul requirement for every time a fat joke is said on the internet.

The internet cannot display how many souls it's gonna take for the game to finally be made.[/quote]


... it will be a good day for someone...

I pledged a little low during KS And missed Beta (couldnt afford it then).
I can afford it now - and would jump at the chance of a "special window" where folks can bump their pledges via paypal or something?

I know there aren't any more "stretch goals" as such - so would KS backers alone get a second chance and the extra $$ can go into development perhaps?

titan1978 wrote:I pledged a little low during KS And missed Beta (couldnt afford it then).
I can afford it now - and would jump at the chance of a "special window" where folks can bump their pledges via paypal or something?

I know there aren't any more "stretch goals" as such - so would KS backers alone get a second chance and the extra $$ can go into development perhaps?

sorry, but the answer is no

~Sly