With Elite Dangerous releasing it's Premium Beta on the 30th, and Star Citizen Dogfighter releasing on May 29th (limited release)... Well it seems that the end of May/Start of June will be rammed pack with Space Sim goings on. And of course, around June 1 Josh will release another update video for Limit Theory.

What a wonderful time to be into space sims!

Indeed .

star citizens and elite both have putrid ship designs, so i'm left with limit theory. some of the early ships look quite bad, but the procedural tech is improving and i'm seeing more viable looking ships.

i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

davidparadis wrote:What a wonderful time to be into space sims!

Amen to that, brother!

johncage wrote:star citizens and elite both have putrid ship designs, so i'm left with limit theory. some of the early ships look quite bad, but the procedural tech is improving and i'm seeing more viable looking ships.

i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

The ships in elite are designed realistically with the mindset that they're useful in atmosphere as well. For aerodynamics in atmosphere and micro-meteors in space a regular convex shape is ideal design.

johncage wrote:star citizens and elite both have putrid ship designs, so i'm left with limit theory. some of the early ships look quite bad, but the procedural tech is improving and i'm seeing more viable looking ships.

i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

I am no fan of Star Citizen or Elite Dangerous for the simple fact that they are MMOs, and I hate MMOs. But the smooth lines in these games do make sense. Need I remind you of the submarine. For all intents and purposes a submarine satisfies the same purposes an interplanetary space ship would to a more limited extent.
Meaning:
1 It is designed to keep the crew alive in a hostile environment
2 It is designed to travel through an environment alien to humans.
3 It is not a single use vehicle
4 It is a self-contained environment with its own power source independent of the exterior.

Now I know some would say that the Space Shuttle with its smooth lines would have been a better and closer example. In my opinion it is not, since it was designed for the purpose of taking the crew into orbit not for taking the crew across vast distances of interplanetary or interstellar space. In short I think of it more like a transit vehicle.

johncage wrote: i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

I'd be interested to see a discussion between you and CutterJohn on this.

Hadrianus wrote:

johncage wrote:star citizens and elite both have putrid ship designs, so i'm left with limit theory. some of the early ships look quite bad, but the procedural tech is improving and i'm seeing more viable looking ships.

i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

I am no fan of Star Citizen or Elite Dangerous for the simple fact that they are MMOs, and I hate MMOs. But the smooth lines in these games do make sense. Need I remind you of the submarine. For all intents and purposes a submarine satisfies the same purposes an interplanetary space ship would to a more limited extent.
Meaning:
1 It is designed to keep the crew alive in a hostile environment
2 It is designed to travel through an environment alien to humans.
3 It is not a single use vehicle
4 It is a self-contained environment with its own power source independent of the exterior.

Now I know some would say that the Space Shuttle with its smooth lines would have been a better and closer example. In my opinion it is not, since it was designed for the purpose of taking the crew into orbit not for taking the crew across vast distances of interplanetary or interstellar space. In short I think of it more like a transit vehicle.

Elite is not an MMO in any way...

It can be played completely off-line as a single player game. It can be played as a single player game, but connected to the server in order to update your universe to match the online universe so you can get the same plot, story and universe updates as other players do. Or you can play multiplayer in which the game is identical to single player, but you now also have other humans as well as the NPCs inhabiting your game. The level of player to player interaction is nowhere near the level of an MMO as the game is run using p2p instancing. Max of 13 players in one instance i believe. The multiplayer is also selective allowing you to create preferred groups and ignore lists should you find a player particularly unpleasant.

No idea about Star Citizen.

johncage wrote:star citizens and elite both have putrid ship designs, so i'm left with limit theory. some of the early ships look quite bad, but the procedural tech is improving and i'm seeing more viable looking ships.

i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

Yes smooth lines are used to make things aerodynamic, that is not their only function. Regardless of frictive forces (which are very tiny in space) you would still want to design the vehicle with relatively straight lines in order to make manoeuvrability more effective F=ma and τ=Fd still apply regardless of aerodynamics. Steering and directional control on most space ships is accomplished using directional thrusters. It is far easier to create a design that has easy to calculate centre of mass, and thus has effective turning moments about an axis if the design is streamlined and symmetrical. Basic handling of a ship is paramount and having designs which are asymmetrical, and have protrusions or nodules or whatever just makes thruster placement, and axis of rotation, more of an unnecessary hassle. This is also true for asymmetrical designs, unless you purposely want your ship to turn faster left than right, and want it to turn about a point that isnt in the centre. It would be counter intuitive, and who buys a combat ship which is not intuitive or feels awkward to fly.

Lastly, you are under-estimating the "style factor". Quick analogy in here The fiat multipla is actually quite an interesting, novel and in many ways advanced engineering design, managing to make a car which was shorter than rivals allowing for easier manoeuvring, but with larger room inside and more passengers. However, it sold poorly outside of Italy because of its aesthetics. They gave the car a face lift in 2004 to give it some clean lines. The result: they sold more units and the car finally got the recognition that it deserved. This is one of many many such instances in engineering history. Style has always and will always be an important factor in designing a vehicle for public sale. Even at the pinnacle of engineering of motorsport (formula 1) people complain about the aesthetics of the new noses, and some teams have actively worked around or added superfluous components in order to improve the look of their car.

Sidee wrote:

Hadrianus wrote:

johncage wrote:star citizens and elite both have putrid ship designs, so i'm left with limit theory. some of the early ships look quite bad, but the procedural tech is improving and i'm seeing more viable looking ships.

i like the way ships have little nodules, greebles, and gremlins to simulate the functional look of a ship with limited space. you really want to stay away from smooth lines like those used in star ctiziens and elite. they just don't make sense, and that harms the aesthetics. smooth lines are a byproduct of trying to make something aerodynamic to reduce drag. just not a concern in space.

I am no fan of Star Citizen or Elite Dangerous for the simple fact that they are MMOs, and I hate MMOs. But the smooth lines in these games do make sense. Need I remind you of the submarine. For all intents and purposes a submarine satisfies the same purposes an interplanetary space ship would to a more limited extent.
Meaning:
1 It is designed to keep the crew alive in a hostile environment
2 It is designed to travel through an environment alien to humans.
3 It is not a single use vehicle
4 It is a self-contained environment with its own power source independent of the exterior.

Now I know some would say that the Space Shuttle with its smooth lines would have been a better and closer example. In my opinion it is not, since it was designed for the purpose of taking the crew into orbit not for taking the crew across vast distances of interplanetary or interstellar space. In short I think of it more like a transit vehicle.

Elite is not an MMO in any way...

It can be played completely off-line as a single player game. It can be played as a single player game, but connected to the server in order to update your universe to match the online universe so you can get the same plot, story and universe updates as other players do. Or you can play multiplayer in which the game is identical to single player, but you now also have other humans as well as the NPCs inhabiting your game. The level of player to player interaction is nowhere near the level of an MMO as the game is run using p2p instancing. Max of 13 players in one instance i believe. The multiplayer is also selective allowing you to create preferred groups and ignore lists should you find a player particularly unpleasant.

No idea about Star Citizen.

Regardless, I have no use for multiplayer, and I despise being forced to stay connected to the internet. As such if an Elite Dangerous copy crosses my desk it will go directly to the Bin. Star Citizen has a single player campaign, but if you want the sandbox experience it turns into an MMO.

Hadrianus wrote:Regardless, I have no use for multiplayer, and I despise being forced to stay connected to the internet. As such if an Elite Dangerous copy crosses my desk it will go directly to the Bin.

Whoa, control those fine steeds of yours Hadrianus. No need to bin Elite Dangerous. Take note of what was written by Sidee.

Sidee wrote:Elite is not an MMO in any way...

It can be played completely off-line as a single player game.

I know of several Commanders in the Elite community who intend playing the game in this manner. True you do incur certain penalties by pursuing this option but the game will still be well worth playing.

Victor Tombs wrote:

Hadrianus wrote:Regardless, I have no use for multiplayer, and I despise being forced to stay connected to the internet. As such if an Elite Dangerous copy crosses my desk it will go directly to the Bin.

Whoa, control those fine steeds of yours Hadrianus. No need to bin Elite Dangerous. Take note of what was written by Sidee.

Sidee wrote:Elite is not an MMO in any way...

It can be played completely off-line as a single player game.

I know of several Commanders in the Elite community who intend playing the game in this manner. True you do incur certain penalties by pursuing this option but the game will still be well worth playing.

The game has been weighed, it has been measured and it has been found wanting (Yes I know I stole the line.) Thus bin time for Elite Dangerous!

Mind you at first I said the same about Skyrim and I’ve been playing that game ever since it came out.

You can play Star Citizen offline, not just the single player campaign, and the same thing with Elite Dangerous. And I don't think this are MMO. Those are just letters. This are games with other people around if you play online, but you don't have to. You can play both games offline.

Elite spaceships look amazing, almost perfect so far. Some of the Star Citizen ships look beautiful too, but it's not exactly my prefered style. Limit Theory spacecrafts are looking very good also, but I am a little worried. I don't like the ship designs shown in the latest videos very much, I'm afraid. I prefer the ships shown between the video updates #5 to #8, and the ones from #9 to #12 are very awesome too.

Will there be another video update? I thought that the #16 video was the last one. I want more videos, but I understood that there would be none.

Any friend of Skyrim I will call brother.

Hadrianus wrote:The game has been weighed, it has been measured and it has been found wanting (Yes I know I stole the line.) Thus bin time for Elite Dangerous!

Now you are jesting. There is no way you could have weighed the final product. Even Josh highly rates the parts of the game he has seen. Believe me, the LT man is not easily impressed. If you are determined to approach the issue in the same manner as you did Skyrim I am sure you will have a change of heart when you experience the majesty of the retail game.

Etsu wrote:You can play Star Citizen offline, not just the single player campaign, and the same thing with Elite Dangerous. And I don't think this are MMO. Those are just letters. This are games with other people around if you play online, but you don't have to. You can play both games offline.

Elite spaceships look amazing, almost perfect so far. Some of the Star Citizen ships look beautiful too, but it's not exactly my prefered style. Limit Theory spacecrafts are looking very good also, but I am a little worried. I don't like the ship designs shown in the latest videos very much, I'm afraid. I prefer the ships shown between the video updates #5 to #8, and the ones from #9 to #12 are very awesome too.

Will there be another video update? I thought that the #16 video was the last one. I want more videos, but I understood that there would be none.

Quote "It will be the last update with a number which is a power of 2" Math jokes don't you know. In other words he was just remarking that it was video No 16 and that the dev logs won’t continue till video No 32, the game will probably be finished by then. There will be updates till the game development process is over.