With all the talk about NPCs and their motivations and goals, I was wondering if there is going to be treason within the LT universe.
I mean if treason is going to be to the benefit of the NPC’s goals it seems like the logical choice to make.
If treason is a plausible phenomenon in the LT universe then how could one cultivate loyalty among your employees, workers, soldiers, etc.
I mean in real life loyalty is not all about money, we have attitudes like patriotism, faith (in the case of religions) or simple stubbornness. Perhaps such attitudes cold be incorporated into the irrationality or superstition systems that have been proposed on the forum. This way if treason is a viable choice in the LT universe you could take advantage of the NPCs biases so as to keep them loyal.
Also maybe there could be a reputation system in regards to loyalty thus your reputation could impact the sort of opportunities you have within an organization.
What do the forum people think?
And can anyone tell me if josh has hinted at something like treason, I have not managed to find anything of this sort?
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:20 am
#2
Re: Treason?
I'd wager that treason may occur with the current AI. After all, anyone will turn for a price.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:56 am
#3
I’m really curios to see how this mechanic could work.
Re: Treason?
I'd agree with that if we were talking about the business minded people. But as Josh has said an NPC’s motivation might not be money it might be something else, like research or exploration. In which case how could you motivate such NPCs not to betray you or to betray their leader if that is what you want.Grumblesaur wrote:I'd wager that treason may occur with the current AI. After all, anyone will turn for a price.
I’m really curios to see how this mechanic could work.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:58 am
#4
if(gain from treason > gain from staying loyal * loyality modificator)
{
pursue own interests
}
its not bound to money, its universal
Re: Treason?
exactly like it works now.Hadrianus wrote: I’m really curios to see how this mechanic could work.
if(gain from treason > gain from staying loyal * loyality modificator)
{
pursue own interests
}
its not bound to money, its universal
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:02 am
#5
I have not seen much on the subject to be honest. If you could refer me to a thread on the subject I’d be grateful
P.S.
Why use programing code in an explanation? Not complaining just curious.
Re: Treason?
My question is if there is something like a loyalty system or loyalty reputation system?Cornflakes_91 wrote:exactly like it works now.Hadrianus wrote: I’m really curios to see how this mechanic could work.
if(own interests > employers interests * loyality)
{
pursue own interests
}
I have not seen much on the subject to be honest. If you could refer me to a thread on the subject I’d be grateful
P.S.
Why use programing code in an explanation? Not complaining just curious.
Last edited by Hadrianus on Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:03 am
#6
Re: Treason?
i vaguely remember something, but dont know anymore when and where :/Hadrianus wrote:
My question is if there is something like a loyalty system or loyalty reputation system?
I have not seen much on the subject to be honest. If you could refer me to a thread on the subject I’d be grateful
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:55 am
#7
Re: Treason?
I think treason is very likely, whether it is an actual game-play terminology defined by a function, or by the nature of the AI coding. Considering a money is money and business is business mentality, it's likely possible and an interesting grey area to consider as a player, the unique entity in the universe. Do you agree with their motive and the resulting departure from loyalty to none other than themselves, or should they adhere strictly to the order of things above them rather than create their own?
Very interesting, and cool, .
For example, if I wanted to continue talking to a female NPC with the best disposition towards me, I could (rather poorly, but this is just an example) summarise the code to highlight a text option to this person in a station by writing:
EDIT: I think and plan in code, and it's been years since I wrote pseudo, hopefully it's more pseudo-esque now, haha.
Note to self: Mixing describing terms with actual code functions is not pseudo, .
Very interesting, and cool, .
It's pseudocode, which is code without being code. It's a breakdown of functionality written concisely to depict methodology functions may follow in an easier-to-read format.Hadrianus wrote:Why use programing code in an explanation? Not complaining just curious.
For example, if I wanted to continue talking to a female NPC with the best disposition towards me, I could (rather poorly, but this is just an example) summarise the code to highlight a text option to this person in a station by writing:
EDIT: I think and plan in code, and it's been years since I wrote pseudo, hopefully it's more pseudo-esque now, haha.
Note to self: Mixing describing terms with actual code functions is not pseudo, .
Code: Select all
if (NPCdisposition > 80) {
// Chat further, we seem to be hitting it off. Rawr.
if (availableChatOptions > 1 and highInfluence option found) {
// Highlight chat option with highInfluence rating.
}
} else if (NPCdisposition < 70 and NPCdisposition > 40 {
// Try some smalltalk, see if doors can open.
if (availableChatOptions > 1 and medInfluence option found) {
// Highlight chat option with medInfluence rating.
}
} else {
if (NPCinventory contains "blasterPistol") {
// Run away.
} else {
// Excuse yourself and leave.
}
}
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:59 am
#8
The way to create treason would be to allow factions to make laws and enforce them in the first place, and if that can happen, then logically any treason/betrayal/lawbreaking may ensue. I think this would help create different systems' and sectors' own differing ideas of morality and legality.
Re: Treason?
If a local entity of authority has placed bans on/monopolized research or exploration of a given technical or physical area, then it may happen that an NPC's best interest would be to ignore the ban and proceed anyway.Hadrianus wrote:I'd agree with that if we were talking about the business minded people. But as Josh has said an NPC’s motivation might not be money it might be something else, like research or exploration. In which case how could you motivate such NPCs not to betray you or to betray their leader if that is what you want.Grumblesaur wrote:I'd wager that treason may occur with the current AI. After all, anyone will turn for a price.
I’m really curios to see how this mechanic could work.
The way to create treason would be to allow factions to make laws and enforce them in the first place, and if that can happen, then logically any treason/betrayal/lawbreaking may ensue. I think this would help create different systems' and sectors' own differing ideas of morality and legality.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:26 pm
#9
Re: Treason?
One of the reasons for introducing the concept of the simple "worker" was because high-LOD NPCs were likely to go off and do their own thing.
I thus think it is reasonable to surmise that, at least at design stage, workers won't commit "treason" (inasmuch as that concept makes any sense, which isn't much), but NPCs might.
I thus think it is reasonable to surmise that, at least at design stage, workers won't commit "treason" (inasmuch as that concept makes any sense, which isn't much), but NPCs might.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:25 pm
#10
Worker NPCs won't commit treason ever. Executives might.
Re: Treason?
Pretty much this.McDuff wrote:One of the reasons for introducing the concept of the simple "worker" was because high-LOD NPCs were likely to go off and do their own thing.
I thus think it is reasonable to surmise that, at least at design stage, workers won't commit "treason" (inasmuch as that concept makes any sense, which isn't much), but NPCs might.
Worker NPCs won't commit treason ever. Executives might.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:24 pm
#11
Re: Treason?
Heh, you guys beat me to it. I read this thread earlier but didn't have the chance to reply. Yeah, worker AI won't be advanced enough to be capable of something like intentional treason.
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Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:27 pm
#12
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Re: Treason?
But then what about the Edward Snowdens of LT? This was a worker who "committed treason". He wasn't an executive.ThymineC wrote:Pretty much this.McDuff wrote:One of the reasons for introducing the concept of the simple "worker" was because high-LOD NPCs were likely to go off and do their own thing.
I thus think it is reasonable to surmise that, at least at design stage, workers won't commit "treason" (inasmuch as that concept makes any sense, which isn't much), but NPCs might.
Worker NPCs won't commit treason ever. Executives might.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Post
Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:46 pm
#13
Worker NPCs = low-LOD NPCs.
Executive NPCs = high-LOD "player" NPCs.
Re: Treason?
I'm using the terms "worker" and "executive" as I defined them here.DWMagus wrote:But then what about the Edward Snowdens of LT? This was a worker who "committed treason". He wasn't an executive.
Worker NPCs = low-LOD NPCs.
Executive NPCs = high-LOD "player" NPCs.
Post
Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:55 am
#14
Re: Treason?
What about cases where miners are mining minerals for 10 times what they're paid because their CEO is corrupt? It would be more akin to union uprisings more than treason, but it's essentially a treasonous act when you get down to it (because it all comes down to perspective). I think any NPC should be capable of turning a full 180* on their previous action/s considering they already have the freedom to choose an action.
Post
Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:47 am
#15
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
Re: Treason?
My bad.ThymineC wrote:I'm using the terms "worker" and "executive" as I defined them here.DWMagus wrote:But then what about the Edward Snowdens of LT? This was a worker who "committed treason". He wasn't an executive.
Worker NPCs = low-LOD NPCs.
Executive NPCs = high-LOD "player" NPCs.
Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.