Honestly, don't even care if there isn't much gameplay yet.
I almost wish there was a sort of daily-updated dev build we could fool around with, seeing the improvements and changes as they happen.

Or just a stripped down bare bones "graphics showcase only" where we literally can just fly around in generated systems, nothing else.

Shhhh, your time will come. Until then just be patient.

Good things come to those who wait. The game is scheduled for release first quarter 2014, so it is pretty much around the corner

Baleur wrote:Honestly, don't even care if there isn't much gameplay yet.

snip

just a stripped down bare bones "graphics showcase only" where we literally can just fly around in generated systems, nothing else.

You have no idea how much we have in common in this. I too wish I could do just that. Some of us are more easily pleased than others it seems.

Baleur wrote:Honestly, don't even care if there isn't much gameplay yet.
I almost wish there was a sort of daily-updated dev build we could fool around with, seeing the improvements and changes as they happen.

Or just a stripped down bare bones "graphics showcase only" where we literally can just fly around in generated systems, nothing else.

The problem is that having a daily updated build that you could play will detract from the impact of the game when it's released in earnest. It's better to be patient and wait for the game to be released in all its glory. A starving man enjoys a three-course meal much more than a content man enjoys eating small morsels at a time.

ThymineC wrote:The problem is that having a daily updated build that you could play will detract from the impact of the game when it's released in earnest. It's better to be patient and wait for the game to be released in all its glory. A starving man enjoys a three-course meal much more than a content man enjoys eating small morsels at a time.

I entirely agree with your comment ThymineC. I was one of the lucky few who had access to the LTP and enjoyed the limited experience it presented. However, the latest developments in LT have made it unrecognizable when comparing the two. It is a truly beautiful experience just watching its creator flying around taking pot shots at asteroids etc. I really crave that experience myself.

Do you think just because I am on the Elder Council I get to do any of that. No such luck I'm afraid.

ThymineC wrote:

Baleur wrote:Honestly, don't even care if there isn't much gameplay yet.
I almost wish there was a sort of daily-updated dev build we could fool around with, seeing the improvements and changes as they happen.

Or just a stripped down bare bones "graphics showcase only" where we literally can just fly around in generated systems, nothing else.

The problem is that having a daily updated build that you could play will detract from the impact of the game when it's released in earnest. It's better to be patient and wait for the game to be released in all its glory. A starving man enjoys a three-course meal much more than a content man enjoys eating small morsels at a time.

True, but i'm sure a starving man would be inherently "happier" (how does one judge happiness anyway?) by having small morsels each day, to avoid starving alltogether!

"In due time, cadet, in due time."

"Oh, doo time!"

Click the tire at the end.

Baleur wrote:
True, but i'm sure a starving man would be inherently "happier" (how does one judge happiness anyway?) by having small morsels each day, to avoid starving alltogether!

There's probably a balance that can be reached. I'd prefer to let myself get a little hungry before a meal so that I enjoy it more. I don't want to eat small amounts constantly, and I don't want to experience long periods of starvation. I'm pretty happy with the way things are now, with dev logs coming out daily (like eating a packet of crisps each day) and an update video coming out each month (like ordering a pizza each month). Talking of which, I'm really looking forward to the upcoming update video.

To answer your question, happiness is judged by the relief one has from suffering.

"I have reminded the reader that every state of welfare, every feeling of satisfaction, is negative in its character; that is to say, it consists in freedom from pain, which is the positive element of existence. It follows, therefore, that the happiness of any given life is to be measured, not by its joys and pleasures, but by the extent to which it has been free from suffering — from positive evil."

-- Arthur Schopenhauer, On the Suffering of the World

Wow, you're being such a sunshine today! =)

That is ultimately just one of many philosophical views on happiness. I personally do not believe happiness and suffering exist in mutual exclusivity. You can be undergoing hardship and still have some sense of happiness regarding one thing or another, and you can be happy without ever having suffered.

However, I would concede that a feeling of happiness after a period of suffering will make the happiness seem more potent in the same way that sharply accelerating from a standstill will cause a jolt and also in the same way that warm colors accompanied by cool colors will appear more vivid.

Grumblesaur wrote:That is ultimately just one of many philosophical views on happiness. I personally do not believe happiness and suffering exist in mutual exclusivity. You can be undergoing hardship and still have some sense of happiness regarding one thing or another, and you can be happy without ever having suffered.

Schopenhauer describes happiness as a feeling we derive from the mitigation of suffering through the fulfilment of needs and desires ("happiness and satisfaction always imply some desire fulfilled, some state of pain brought to an end."), but there are many, many different forms that suffering can take. It is entirely possible to be in a situation in which you're experiencing suffering in some respect, and yet relieved of suffering in others. In this case, I suppose you can experience a feeling of both happiness and suffering simultaneously.

Schopenhauer draws deeply from Buddhist philosophy in these respects. These are the same kind of ideas conveyed in the Four Noble Truths.

(edit)

Grumblesaur wrote:...and you can be happy without ever having suffered.

When talking about suffering, Schopenhauer is speaking more in the sense that the Buddhists take it to mean. The Buddhists actually use a different term to avoid confusion, which is dukkha. When people hear the term "suffering", they usually associate it with states of extreme or protracted pain, whereas the Buddhists and Schopenhauer use the term to encompass all undesirable states of being regardless of magnitude. If you experience the pain of a single pinprick, or are not perfectly content with your surroundings, or have a slight desire to talk with others or to eat something, then you are suffering, albeit not greatly. We experience suffering (in this more general sense) whenever we have needs or desires that are not perfectly satisfied.

Grumblesaur wrote:"In due time, cadet, in due time."

"Oh, doo time!"

Click the tire at the end.

I enjoyed that Grumblesaur. You are not quite as serious as I was led to believe.is there any way you can use this sort of material in your project? With stories, songs and amusing videos I think I would be able to make it through the technical content.

ThymineC wrote:"I have reminded the reader that every state of welfare, every feeling of satisfaction, is negative in its character; that is to say, it consists in freedom from pain, which is the positive element of existence. It follows, therefore, that the happiness of any given life is to be measured, not by its joys and pleasures, but by the extent to which it has been free from suffering — from positive evil."

-- Arthur Schopenhauer, On the Suffering of the World

AND.... down to earth with a bump. Good old Arthur, I bet he was the life and soul of all the wild parties he attended.

Victor Tombs wrote:
AND.... down to earth with a bump. Good old Arthur, I bet he was the life and soul of all the wild parties he attended.

Haha. Well, according to Edgar Evertson Saltus' account in The Philosophy of Disenchantment, he was a pretty attractive man, with good connections and a fair amount of wealth. He may not have been the life and soul of any parties, but he was for a time pretty outgoing: "His life at Dresden was necessarily much less secluded than that to which he had been hitherto accustomed; he became an habitué at the opera and comedy, a frequent guest in literary and social circles, and, as student of men and things, he went about disturbing draperies and disarranging screens, very much as any other philosopher might do who was bent on seeing the world."

After this he started to become more and more secluded. He seems like a pretty nice guy.

ThymineC wrote: Schopenhauer describes happiness as a feeling we derive from the mitigation of suffering through the fulfilment of needs and desires ("happiness and satisfaction always imply some desire fulfilled, some state of pain brought to an end."), but there are many, many different forms that suffering can take. It is entirely possible to be in a situation in which you're experiencing suffering in some respect, and yet relieved of suffering in others. In this case, I suppose you can experience a feeling of both happiness and suffering simultaneously.

Schopenhauer draws deeply from Buddhist philosophy in these respects. These are the same kind of ideas conveyed in the Four Noble Truths.

When talking about suffering, Schopenhauer is speaking more in the sense that the Buddhists take it to mean. The Buddhists actually use a different term to avoid confusion, which is dukkha. When people hear the term "suffering", they usually associate it with states of extreme or protracted pain, whereas the Buddhists and Schopenhauer use the term to encompass all undesirable states of being regardless of magnitude. If you experience the pain of a single pinprick, or are not perfectly content with your surroundings, or have a slight desire to talk with others or to eat something, then you are suffering, albeit not greatly. We experience suffering (in this more general sense) whenever we have needs or desires that are not perfectly satisfied.

With that particular definition in mind, it's a valid statement. Though from a practical standpoint, it seems excessive to term all of those things "suffering", though then again it is coming from the lexicon of another language altogether, so I suppose that sense of "anything from a pinprick to the edge of death" idea ends up a bit lost in translation.

Victor Tombs wrote: I enjoyed that Grumblesaur. You are not quite as serious as I was led to believe.is there any way you can use this sort of material in your project? With stories, songs and amusing videos I think I would be able to make it through the technical content.

If you ever find someone who is serious down to their bones, you have found a very rare person indeed.

Alas, I am no animator, nor a talented voice actor, but I shall seek to work humor into my more austere endeavors.