I hate writing on my phone. I typed everything here already, and then accidentally hit back instead of backspace...
Idea #1: only pop larger rocks into the region when they are out of view. Unfortunately this won't help the "fast forward travel" case where popping is most obvious.
Idea #2: if the big rocks are the problem, then make them look smaller when they first pop in, and scale them up to normal as they get closer or go out of view. In other words, cheat. Since it takes longer to get close to a large rock after it first appears, it's possible the scaling would be unnoticeable.
Post
Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:06 pm
#17
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
I was going to suggest a sort of fade-in for asteroids but decided it was just fancy fog.
This post has accomplished, nothing.
This post has accomplished, nothing.
woops, my bad, everything & anything actually means specific and conformed
Post
Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:58 pm
#18
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Hey most of my posts are even more useless than this one!Katawa wrote:I was going to suggest a sort of fade-in for asteroids but decided it was just fancy fog.
This post has accomplished, nothing.
The only limit is the one you set.
Post
Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:31 am
#19
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Jaw dropping as usual =). Awesome work Josh. 
Post
Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:02 am
#20
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Honestly, I just assumed the problem would more or less fix itself (i.e. Become much less noticible), once you implemented the asteroid field dust/fog effect you mentioned in the video (at about 5m50s).JoshParnell wrote:As many have already pointed out, the popping is a problem. The truth is that it's not an easily-solvable problem. To properly combat popping, you need to make sure that an asteroid of twice the size loads at twice the distance. This ensures that screen-space popping remains relatively constant for all sizes of asteroids. However, doing so would mean (thanks to the "curse of dimensionality") loading eight times the volume of space (because twice the distance means eight times the volume in 3D space). So, if you want to achieve scale differences on the order of 2^10 (which is what we are currently seeing in-game), you would need to load 2^30 times the volume of space for the largest asteroid than you would for the smallest. That would 'perfectly' combat popping.
- The Snark Knight
"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."
"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."
Post
Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:52 am
#21
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
My thoughts exactly as well. Not too worried about the asteroid poppings than the implementation of dust clouds. In the asteroid field it's really clear there's dust but upon exiting it the dust can no longer be seen from a distance. Here's hoping for a solution in September!Just_Ice_au wrote:Honestly, I just assumed the problem would more or less fix itself (i.e. Become much less noticible), once you implemented the asteroid field dust/fog effect you mentioned in the video (at about 5m50s).
In Josh we trust.
Post
Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:21 am
#22
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Awesome update as usual 
Found out about it while browsing RPS (they love it btw), and the comments are all good too:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09 ... y-footage/
In relation to the asteroid popping issue (i'm trying to help a guy working on FFED3D AndyJ mod version solve a similar issue we have with the planets), you mention the issue of the lack of dust cloud once you are outside the asteroid field.
If you can work out that problem could it not be used to add a layer of distance obscurity perhaps? So at distance X when you work out how to activate this asteroid cloud at distance, just have it 'hide' the asteroids before they 'pop' into view? Smoke and mirrors etc?
Found out about it while browsing RPS (they love it btw), and the comments are all good too:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09 ... y-footage/
In relation to the asteroid popping issue (i'm trying to help a guy working on FFED3D AndyJ mod version solve a similar issue we have with the planets), you mention the issue of the lack of dust cloud once you are outside the asteroid field.
If you can work out that problem could it not be used to add a layer of distance obscurity perhaps? So at distance X when you work out how to activate this asteroid cloud at distance, just have it 'hide' the asteroids before they 'pop' into view? Smoke and mirrors etc?
Post
Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:36 am
#23
It should look significantly better once I get a solid solution for distant fog in place!
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Right, exactly, that's what I was talking about in the video / posts in this thread.Zak Gordon wrote:Awesome update as usual
Found out about it while browsing RPS (they love it btw), and the comments are all good too:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09 ... y-footage/
In relation to the asteroid popping issue (i'm trying to help a guy working on FFED3D AndyJ mod version solve a similar issue we have with the planets), you mention the issue of the lack of dust cloud once you are outside the asteroid field.
If you can work out that problem could it not be used to add a layer of distance obscurity perhaps? So at distance X when you work out how to activate this asteroid cloud at distance, just have it 'hide' the asteroids before they 'pop' into view? Smoke and mirrors etc?
It should look significantly better once I get a solid solution for distant fog in place!
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
Post
Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:20 pm
#24
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Alternately, whenever a "pop" event is about to occur, just make a nearby NPC ship visibly fire a weapon somewhere else on the screen.
By the time the player has processed "holy crud is someone shooting at me oh wait no they're not I'm safe," the poppage will be over.
I see nothing wrong with exploiting a psychological effect resulting from 200 million years of evolution from mammals terrified of being someone's lunch.
By the time the player has processed "holy crud is someone shooting at me oh wait no they're not I'm safe," the poppage will be over.
I see nothing wrong with exploiting a psychological effect resulting from 200 million years of evolution from mammals terrified of being someone's lunch.
Post
Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:09 am
#25
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Now that's clever optimizationFlatfingers wrote:Alternately, whenever a "pop" event is about to occur, just make a nearby NPC ship visibly fire a weapon somewhere else on the screen.
By the time the player has processed "holy crud is someone shooting at me oh wait no they're not I'm safe," the poppage will be over.
I see nothing wrong with exploiting a psychological effect resulting from 200 million years of evolution from mammals terrified of being someone's lunch.
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
Post
Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:51 pm
#26
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
… with the small caveat that when traveling through a fog-free asteroid thicket you'll need quite some fireworks as a distraction (as in: permanent attacks from everywhere 
).
).
Post
Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:38 pm
#27
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Josh, I just noticed that Dev Update #8 hasn't appeared on the frontpage of ltheory.com yet. Just wanted to let you know that.
avatar made from a photo by abbyreed
Post
Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:00 am
#28
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Hey thanks, I do tend to forget about that. Just updated!madjo wrote:Josh, I just noticed that Dev Update #8 hasn't appeared on the frontpage of ltheory.com yet. Just wanted to let you know that.
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
Post
Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:11 am
#29
What the eye notices is a sudden changes, so fading larger asteroids in over 1-2 seconds (even in a 100% fog-free asteroid field) should make the effect much less noticeable no?
Fade in either with opacity, or with scale (as someone else suggested), whichever is best for performance vs look.
Re: Development Update #8: August 2013
Why wouldn't fade in be a good solution?Katawa wrote:I was going to suggest a sort of fade-in for asteroids but decided it was just fancy fog.
This post has accomplished, nothing.
What the eye notices is a sudden changes, so fading larger asteroids in over 1-2 seconds (even in a 100% fog-free asteroid field) should make the effect much less noticeable no?
Fade in either with opacity, or with scale (as someone else suggested), whichever is best for performance vs look.